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I live in Las Vegas. I almost always fly IFR. What almost everyone here is saying is correct (save for the C who ragged on GA pilots - the kind that most ATPS once were in order to get to where they are today- B!). Last thing I want flying over a populated area is some guy who thinks he owns the airspace, and willing to butt heads over it. Sometimes ATC attitude causes the problems. Instead he immediately gets defensive and then combative. 1NR, exit the Bravo immediately.Pilot: Ive been talking to you the whole time. The pilot violated the FARs and FSDO needs to take appropriate action. Share sensitive information only on official, secure websites. When the controller said he was Researching this pilot's flight with FlightAware and Flightradar24 a much clearer picture emerges. Humans make mistakes sometimes its not a reason to bully somebody. Thank one every time you get where you're going. For those that don't want to read. Some of the penalties of pilot deviation can be no action, a warning notice or letter of correction, certificate suspension, civil penalties, retraining, and even certificate revocation. Ground deviations can happen while taxiing, taking off, or . Maybe follow-up later with a phone call to make sure they knew it was entirely unintentional, you immediately corrected the error, and that safety is paramount. https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/a1wehj/so_who_has_one_of_these/ and our Why Do They Cut the Back of Your Shirt When You First Fly Solo? We will also go into the consequences that could occur if you were to get into trouble for this. Having been a pilot for over 50 years let me assure you this pilot will receive more than a you shouldnt do that anymore. WWFeldman Pre-takeoff checklist Joined: Nov 11, 2019 Messages: 107 Display name: WWFeldman I'm sure we all remember our favorite bravo buster. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. The tower controller likely For everyone making your amazing judgment calls on the Henderson controller: Tower: "N12345, I'll call your right turn north east. Pull that @$$holes license and give him a huge fine. Certainly, the other person on frequency broke the rules by transmitting directly to the pilot, but that was defensible and measured: the pilot had severely degraded situational awareness that was imperiling the safe operation of his aircraft. So to appease the pilot and keep him from rattling off more sob story on frequency, he just smiles and waves. Opinions expressed here are the authors alone, and have not been reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by any of these entities. When other pilots are straight up calling you an asshole on frequency, and nobody but you is concerned by it, YOU fucked up. For starters, she let him wander into bravo and didn't kick him out until he was well inside. Karen: > Nobody gives a f*. She refuses and he petulantly retorts back. Mistakes happen. FAA CPL-H This pilot came in over Lake Meade under the class B which requires no ATC clearance to operate an aircraft. It appears this pilot got sloppy without realizing he got sloppy. He flew right across the ILS approach glideslope to LAS 26 after he was told to vacate Bravo airspace recklessly endangering multiple lives. What would the discussion be today if there had been a midair collision like the one in San Diego in 1979 with the PSA 727 and a Cessna? Were all here to check each other and keep our airspace safe. However, unless you are in a Class A airspace, a pilot is allowed to cancel an IFR flight plan if the operation is being conducted in VFR weather conditions. Not a cool move on his part. Get the stick out of your asses". Thank you for your attached FOIA request. > Why am I not surprised this happened in Vegas, where theyre apparently allergic to rules. Gotta love how times have changed Dad was a FBO, Commercial, Instructor, Multi, Aerobatic, crop duster and Instrument. The ATC has so many things going on- for him to argue and therefore take her attention away from all the "balls in the air" she is dealing with, the punishment should be more than losing his license, he should be charged with attempted manslaughter or something. The compilation is based on data from the agency's Enforcement Information System ( EIS ). Is there an issue? The few concerns about behavior affected by incipient tumor or hypoxia bring back memories. Please send comments to the following: http://av-info.faa.gov/feedback, Subject: FOIA 2020-007191WS Anonymous (Laing). I dont know what will fix that. It seems like the pilot was intent on entering Bravo with or without permission. My reliable bet is that sometime between approach switching the aircraft to tower and the time the phone number is read, the pilot gave the tower controller a sob story. Either that, or "Karen" is the "wife" this aircraft is registered to in "Wife Approved LLC". Pull that @$$holes license and give him a huge fine. Thanks. The ONLY reason aviation is the safest form of transportation is precisely because everything is taken so seriously. To do this, they will use the Brasher Notification Phraseology. Your feedback is important in helping us keep our community safe. She should have vectored him out after he refused. Although VASAviation transcribed it as "you're being that," it sounded to me more like this pilot started to retort with, "YOU'RE being an ass--", then caught himself and said, "That is not appropriate language.". I didn't hear anything that I didn't find out of line. I noticed the same aircraft had an incident last year with a gear-up landing in St. Louis. Continuing into class Bravo airspace without a clearance and then flying right thru the active ILS approach to a major airport is a huge problem. entering airspace without authorization). This leads me to believe that a medical problem or hypoxia or something like that might (emphasis, _might__) have been a factor. Maybe on a subconscious level, you realize that there are departures off of Runway 27R as well. I was working the ER In Jerusalem and this belligerent teen was being kept there for observation post head trauma. I'm only going this way because something in his demeanor smells like something else is at play. Been there, done that. N1NR answers back that "he's flying". Good luck. There is zero excuse for wasting ATC's time in a Class B in this age of airliners everywhere. Or the one over Cerritos in 1986?". Bravo airspace, like Ben said, is the airspace around major airports in the country. VFR altitude adjustable to an incorrect barometric pressure of 200'. N1NR answers back that "he's flying". He flew the plane and student back, Mom advised student (he wanted to finish he's flight) he was done until she discussed it with IP and Dad as owner and Chief Pilot. In fact, I encourage that. Making excuses for people gets others killed. Wrong. The plane was a Cessna P210N, so pressurization could be an issue. He risked lives at the time of this incident, and in the future if pilots aren't seriously punished for this kind of behavior. There are riots. Hey not fair to say that to PIA. Interceptions are dangerous and that jet blast and thrust from either twin thrust (F-15) or single thrust (F-16) could put the Cessna into a dangerous condition. He should AT LEAST be suspended, and frankly, given his behavior, I have no issue with his losing it. Hundreds could have died. Reminds me of center frequencies ignoring calls from VFR aircraft. She didn't take the high road when he became argumentative. Flightaware shows he flew in from denver at 16300' level the whole way. He should have declared an emergency when denied entry into Bravo. Please find attached the completed copy of your FOIA request number 2020-007191 from the Aviation Data Systems Branch in Oklahoma City. First of all, I've never gotten one, and don't plan to get one. It should have gone 1NR, please exit the Bravo. Please provide this information by COB, on Friday July 17, 2020, or we will go with the last known requestor from MuckRock.com, who we are showing as Matthew Phelan. NASTY ARGUMENT between Cessna Pilot and Vegas ATC! My father was an Air Traffic Controller when the accident happened over San Diego in 1979 (not the one on duty when the accident occurred) so I know just as much about the history of this airspace as you claim to know, maybe even more. Oh my gosh! Or . would argue at times. Then he flew back to Torrance the next day. Word of caution: the owner of the aircraft is easily found, and plenty of information is out there. Eg. Whether medical or not, whether deserving of sympathy or not, I hope this guy loses his license. Don't assume the pilot flying owns the aircraft. She kept phoning her father, a MD in LA and complaining about her mistreatment and threatening everybody with lawsuits. He's a danger to us all and I don't want to share the sky with him. We will leave some of the most common violations below for you to read about. What are the Advantages of Using VOR Systems for Navigation? The pilot will most likely face a license suspension and other penalties. Having been a pilot for over 50 years let me assure you this pilot will receive more than a you shouldnt do that anymore. "This guy might just be the most negligent pilot ever in terms of how he ignores instructions." I received a disc from the FAA containing the Air Traffic Organization response and I loaded everything from that disc into this Google Drive folder. Why am I not surprised this happened in Vegas, where they're apparently allergic to rules. Thank you, number as soon as IP returns will have him call. I hope this guy is ready to hear a lot of "unable VFR services" or "radar services terminated, squawk VFR, frequency change approved" when they recognize who he is again. . The controller continues to direct other traffic including warning other planes in the area that N1NR is there and approximately where it is so that they do not collide with it as it has still not left Bravo. 731NR | Pilots of America Home Forums Controlled Airspace Flight Following 731NR Discussion in ' Flight Following ' started by WWFeldman, Oct 29, 2020 . I was really busy at the time and he took up much of my time and reduced the safe operation of the airspace. As promised, the final portion of the FOIA response concerning N731NR (the guy who busted Las Vegas class B). But you'd think that someone displaying this much attitude and disrespect for critical rules would have shown his true colors and been denied a license much earlier. I noticed a typo "pilot deviation" should be of course "pilot deviation". Avoiding Pilot Deviations.pdf (1016.81 KB) Pilot deviations can occur in several different ways. 3h 18m. The company is owned by Jeff Wachner, a real estate agent in Southern California. If you are training to be a pilot, or simply have an interest in the industry, a phrase that you might have come across is pilot deviation. 1NR, exit the Bravo immediately"N731NR (whining): "I've been talking to you the whole time. To break down the exchange, the air traffic controller orders the aircraft to leave the Bravo airspace and pilot whines and refuses because he's already in the airspace. Thank you for your pointing out you're anti-USA and somehow a pilot incursion into Class Bravo airspace has to do with "anti-mask BS". This pilot should have been arrested and given a breathalyzer upon landing. Happens every day, but not usually with the drama that this knucklehead exhibited A few weeks ago a commercial pilot blew through the O'hare Bravo - ATC kept trying to gently help him by repeating the local altimeter reading thinking he might check his altitude by the 3rd time he offered it, but eventually just had to notify the errant pilot and provide him with a phone # to call. We want to do our jobs admirably and we want to make pilots happy. All the information we have at this point shows that he blamed ATC for . In contrast, the pilot of N731NR exhibited an unrepentant anti-authority attitude. From available ATC communications, it appears this particular pilot either forgot to make the request, or thought he made the request to get permission. I looked back over it, and finally saw the one you mentioned, somehow missed it before. Either that or he's going to get some very long vectors around special use airspace. I, at times, if the weather is good enough, cancelled IFR..continuing on my own. If you do receive a brasher warning, you should know that you do not have to call the provided telephone straight away, and you are allowed to take some time to think about the situation that has occurred. . The F-15 and F-16 have to go over twice that. Airborne deviations can result when pilots stray from an assigned, heading, altitude, or instrument procedure, or if they penetrate controlled or restricted airspace without ATC clearance. It appears that this pilot is a child of the "Magenta Line", it looks like he flies with automation on a lot. She is going to give him the number when he's ready. Time that controller needed for other pilots who HAD to be in the Class B. I can't believe anyone would defend his behavior Is it that hard to skirt around or over it? Result - IP and my Mom who normally ran the business in Dads absence got back at the same time. ATC either turns him around or gives him a better heading. Well you guys been calling all kind names to this pilot, and you probably right, but he made the mistake or not to come inside of Bravo,the tower job now os to try bring everyone safe in,then let FAA deal with it. 866.835.5322 (866-TELL-FAA)Contact Us, United States Department of Transportation, Aviation Safety Draft Documents Open for Comment, Airport Coronavirus Response Grant Program, Legislation & Policies, Regulations & Guidance, Certificated Remote Pilots including Commercial Operators, Recreational Flyers & Modeler Community-Based Organizations, Archived Quarterly Enforcement Reports (These reports date back to the first quarter of 1997.